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  1. athena69
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  4. Sunday, 07 June 2020
Now that we have official confirmtion that they are indeed writing Kate Kane out of the show and bringing in a completely new character to take on the mantle of Batwoman, I have a few thoughts on the change in character dynamics.

On the one hand, I appreciate that they are honoring Ruby's legacy by not recasting the character of Kate. And since Ruby left on apparently good terms, I hope they leave the story open for Kate to make a appearance or three in the future, and not just kill her off. I just hope they come up with a really good reason for Kate leaving and not something lame like, she couldn't handle that her father hates Batwoman - not something the Paragon of Courage would throw in the towel for.

With Kate out of the picture, I kind of see it less likely that Alice will become Red Alice - without the impetus of working along side her twin sister, does she have enough of a moral compass to make that transition on her own? Maybe if Kate disappears before she has her chance to exact her revenge, she'll go after whoever she thinks is responsible, and inadvertently become a hero? And it seems to me that Alice never considered Batwoman a threat. But with someone other than her sister wearing the batsuit, I can see the Batwoman/Alice dynamic becoming much more antagonistic this next season. Without Mouse, Alice is now completely on her own. And if she can't have her revenge on Kate (and no Kate to help draw out the good in her), I think she's going to become a lot more dangerous.

And then there's Safiyah. She's been gunning for Batwoman. And she's pissed at Alice for betraying her. So, the enemy of my enemy is my Bat-friend? Maybe Alice will have to team up with the new Batwoman to stop Safiyah?

What about the rest of the Bat-team? I don't see Luke being written out - he's the one with all the Bat-tech secrets. Altho, I do see his becoming Batwing happening sooner than later as a result of this change. Perhaps this will open it up to bring Parker in full time to take over Luke's duties in the bat-cave?

And since we absolutely cannot loose the Mary-Luke dynamic (which I think will become even more fun once Luke becomes Batwing), I think Mary will put herself in the role of big sister to "Ryan" and try to smooth out some of the rough edges that they've hinted at in the character description.

Jacob, of course, will continue down his dark obsession to kill Batwoman, and it's going to get him in trouble at some point. I can almost see him going rogue and bordering on becoming a villain. But I also see that without Kate, I think he'll be more of a thorn in the Bat-team's side and we'll see less of him in general.

It seems to me that Sophie's main purpose on the show was to create some sexual and emotional tension for Kate. With Kate gone, I don't know... maybe she'll be the only thing that keeps Jacob from completely dragging the Crows down the road to police state?

Julia is Alfred's daughter, so she'll always have a place in the Bat-family, and personally, I think she needs to be on the team permanently. But I have a feeling that she'll be an on-again-off-again character. Given her happy-go-lucky attitude, I think she'll get along great with "Ryan".

So, them's my thoughts. Anyone else?
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I had thought Christina Wolfe was upped to regular. It sucks that on top of losing Kate Kane, Julia has been MIA.
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I had thought Christina Wolfe was upped to regular. It sucks that on top of losing Kate Kane, Julia has been MIA.


I thought that too (Julia a regular).
I would guess she is on some secret mission that will be very important to the story.
But she is been missing for 5 episodes now. And in at least the last 3 no one even mentioned here.
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In the end, I think both will return ;)
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  1. more than a month ago
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So...that just happened. Just found out on Wallis Day’s Instagram. She confirmed it.

I guess they won’t be abandoning Kate’s story entirely. I’m still not naive enough to think the writers will let her be Batwoman again.

This doesn’t change anything. I’m still not happy with their decision to just give the mantle over to a random OC created just to take her place.
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A recasting should have been their Season 2 narrative direction from the beginning.

Wallis is a great actor, though, and should make a great Kate.
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Only if she’s written well. And I don’t trust these writers to do anything except use her to constantly kiss the OC’s ass and validate her even more.
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Only if she’s written well. And I don’t trust these writers to do anything except use her to constantly kiss the OC’s ass and validate her even more.


Just because the producers made an unnecessary decision, it doesn't mean that they won't treat the Kate Kane character respectfully as a supporting player.
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As a “supporting player”!? Do you have any idea how insulting that sounds? There would be no Batwoman series without Kate Kane! It’s her story.

Supporting player my ass! This was her journey to begin with. I’m only interested in watching for her. Happy to just fast forward all the OC’s scenes.
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I agree Kate Kane is Batwoman and not a supporting player in her own story.

I am psyched that Wallis Day was cast as Kate and disappointed that Dries has said it will further cement Ryan as Batwoman. I knew they would not bring Kate back as Batwoman over the who diversity recast. Ryan should have be brought in as a different character.
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  3. # 48
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Kate isn't a "supporting player in her own story" because the show isn't about her any longer. It's about Ryan.

However, for the sake of narrative continuity, I'd personally rather have Kate back in the series as a supporting character than not have her involved at all.

Also, I've realized that, for as much as I personally might be frustrated with the execution, switching the focus from Kate to Ryan is no different than, hypothetically, telling the story of The Killing Joke, Stephanie Brown's ascension as the new Batgirl, and Barbara's transformation into Oracle within the pages of an ongoing Batgirl comic series.

In other words, the show is doing exactly what some of us thought it should've done with regards to shifting the focus of the story from Kate to Ryan; it's just doing it in a more convoluted fashion than it needed to.
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I'm sure that when the Kate storyline and the Ryan/everyone else storyline connect later in the season,Kate herself will officially anoint Ryan as Batwoman.I think that has to be what this is building to for the end of the season.

Kate will be discovered by our characters leading Ryan to doubt her continued role as Batwoman after truly establishing herself in the role in the mid part of this season.By the end of the season,Kate herself will pass the mantle to Ryan and probably depart Gotham maybe after making peace with her father and Alice and having closure with Luke,Mary and Sophie
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Right. Because validating some random OC imposter is so much more important than respecting the real Batwoman and her legacy.

Give me a break. ?
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  3. # 51
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Right. Because validating some random OC imposter is so much more important than respecting the real Batwoman and her legacy.

Give me a break. ?


Shifting the story from Kate to Ryan isn't disrespectful.

I dislike the execution, but the concept is sound.
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  3. # 53
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*sigh* Ya know what? I’ve changed my mind. I’m still not watching. I’m happy for Wallis Day to get the role. But seeing these writers continue to insult Kate Kane’s character by denying her the Batwoman mantle, in favour of their precious OC imposter, is just going to be too painful to witness.

They should have just recast her right from the start. But the character was clearly too “white and privileged” to be worthy of being Batwoman anymore. Because being woke today is so much more important to them than respecting the source material.

DC’s intellectual property has always been too good for these hacks.
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Wallis will be awesome as Kate Kane. However, I am concerned about the body parts found... how much of Kate was floating around out there in the ocean and how much of her remains intact in the sewers of Gotham?

Wallis was my top pick of the names that were floating around to replace Ruby before the whole 180 with Ryan Wilder.

I think Wallis Day could go toe-to-toe with the fabulous Rachel Skarsten.

I am disappointed but not at all surprised that Dries purposely noted that the second half of the season will cement Ryan as Batwoman. I knew they could not or would not reverse course.

But to me and most core fans, Kate Kane is Batwoman. Ryan should have her own unique super hero identity and work with Kate and Team Bat or get a spinoff.
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@rogvortex58 " *sigh* Ya know what? I’ve changed my mind. I’m still not watching. I’m happy for Wallis Day to get the role. But seeing these writers continue to insult Kate Kane’s character by denying her the Batwoman mantle, in favour of their precious OC, is just going to be too painful to witness."


Sadly, It looks like many fans feel the same. While the season 2 premiere was on par with the ratings where season 1 ended, it has since lost about 1/3 of it viewers.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Batwoman.tv General
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*sigh* Ya know what? I’ve changed my mind. I’m still not watching. I’m happy for Wallis Day to get the role. But seeing these writers continue to insult Kate Kane’s character by denying her the Batwoman mantle, in favour of their precious OC, is just going to be too painful to witness.

They should have just recast her right from the start. But the character was clearly too “white and privileged” to be worthy of being Batwoman anymore. Because being woke today is so much more important to them than respecting the source material.

DC’s intellectual property has always been too good for these hacks.


Ethnicity had nothing to do with the decision to shift the focus of the series from Kate to Ryan.

We know this because Wallis was actually one of the people who auditioned for the role of Ryan before it ultimately went to Javica, as per Caroline Dries.

Wallis also came onto the producers' radar for the role of the new Kate because of the fan community's push for her to replace Ruby before it was revealed that the focus of the series was being shifted away from Kate and onto Ryan.
  1. more than a month ago
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Sadly, It looks like many fans feel the same. While the season 2 premiere was on par with the ratings where season 1 ended, it has since lost about 1/3 of it viewers.


Even I'm tired of this topic I just have to reply.
Most shows lose viewers during a season. Especially compared to the season premiere.
Also, these are the TV ratings. And this is the CW, which is basically a streaming service. So the TV ratings are like the numbers of fax machines sales ...outdated ... ;)
Plus I think with that Wallis Day aspect, the numbers will go up.
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  1. more than a month ago
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Glad that the title of this thread is wrong after all. :)
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  1. more than a month ago
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I just hope that WB can finally get their act together some day and do a DCEU Batwoman movie with Kate in the lead role.

It would be the one silver lining to this whole disaster.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Batwoman.tv General
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