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  1. athena69
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  3. Batwoman.tv General
  4. Sunday, 07 June 2020
Now that we have official confirmtion that they are indeed writing Kate Kane out of the show and bringing in a completely new character to take on the mantle of Batwoman, I have a few thoughts on the change in character dynamics.

On the one hand, I appreciate that they are honoring Ruby's legacy by not recasting the character of Kate. And since Ruby left on apparently good terms, I hope they leave the story open for Kate to make a appearance or three in the future, and not just kill her off. I just hope they come up with a really good reason for Kate leaving and not something lame like, she couldn't handle that her father hates Batwoman - not something the Paragon of Courage would throw in the towel for.

With Kate out of the picture, I kind of see it less likely that Alice will become Red Alice - without the impetus of working along side her twin sister, does she have enough of a moral compass to make that transition on her own? Maybe if Kate disappears before she has her chance to exact her revenge, she'll go after whoever she thinks is responsible, and inadvertently become a hero? And it seems to me that Alice never considered Batwoman a threat. But with someone other than her sister wearing the batsuit, I can see the Batwoman/Alice dynamic becoming much more antagonistic this next season. Without Mouse, Alice is now completely on her own. And if she can't have her revenge on Kate (and no Kate to help draw out the good in her), I think she's going to become a lot more dangerous.

And then there's Safiyah. She's been gunning for Batwoman. And she's pissed at Alice for betraying her. So, the enemy of my enemy is my Bat-friend? Maybe Alice will have to team up with the new Batwoman to stop Safiyah?

What about the rest of the Bat-team? I don't see Luke being written out - he's the one with all the Bat-tech secrets. Altho, I do see his becoming Batwing happening sooner than later as a result of this change. Perhaps this will open it up to bring Parker in full time to take over Luke's duties in the bat-cave?

And since we absolutely cannot loose the Mary-Luke dynamic (which I think will become even more fun once Luke becomes Batwing), I think Mary will put herself in the role of big sister to "Ryan" and try to smooth out some of the rough edges that they've hinted at in the character description.

Jacob, of course, will continue down his dark obsession to kill Batwoman, and it's going to get him in trouble at some point. I can almost see him going rogue and bordering on becoming a villain. But I also see that without Kate, I think he'll be more of a thorn in the Bat-team's side and we'll see less of him in general.

It seems to me that Sophie's main purpose on the show was to create some sexual and emotional tension for Kate. With Kate gone, I don't know... maybe she'll be the only thing that keeps Jacob from completely dragging the Crows down the road to police state?

Julia is Alfred's daughter, so she'll always have a place in the Bat-family, and personally, I think she needs to be on the team permanently. But I have a feeling that she'll be an on-again-off-again character. Given her happy-go-lucky attitude, I think she'll get along great with "Ryan".

So, them's my thoughts. Anyone else?
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Kate Kane is Batwoman and this switcheroo doesn't make me happy... as I have said many times.

The time has arrived. We are 20 minutes in the S2 premiere. No spoilers, but I think Dries did a fine job with the hand off.

It plays well. I'm still not happy, but it plays well.

Nothing against the new actress, as I really like her... just a Kate Kane fan.
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I still have no desire to watch Season 2 at the present time, but it appears from trailers and such the production team have found a way to make their decisions work.

To be clear, that doesn't mean their decisions were correct, but "Batwoman without Kate Kane" might not be the trainwreck I was convinced that it was going to be even though I'm not currently interested in it personally.

To anyone who is, though, more power to you.


Well, then I hope you get curious enough to give it soon a chance and watch it.
Personally I'm still unsure what to think about the decision to bench Kate for the moment, but I'm way too much of a fan of the show itself then to let that even me slightly considering not to watch the show.
I will watch the show until the last second of its last season, no matter what.
Yes, they take a BIG risk by swapping the main character (for now), but a risk is always a chance as well. That decision CAN make the show better than it was last season. And personally I think that Ryan background is verrry interesting.
Bruce and Kate are both rich folks and Ryan is SO different from them.
Let's see how this play out.
I'm already pretty sure that Javicia does a better job then Ruby did.
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I still have no desire to watch Season 2 at the present time, but it appears from trailers and such the production team have found a way to make their decisions work.

To be clear, that doesn't mean their decisions were correct, but "Batwoman without Kate Kane" might not be the trainwreck I was convinced that it was going to be even though I'm not currently interested in it personally.

To anyone who is, though, more power to you.
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..........
And, unfortunately, not many people share your confidence that Kate Kane will return at the end of the season. I said this before, but giving the mantle to Ryan Wilder, promoting it as a new black woman-led show, then ripping that away at the end of the season, would be in REALLY poor taste, from a PC standpoint. So no matter what they do, even if they bring Kate back...they've alienated one fan base or another.


Yeah, some good points.
I would rather have had Kate Kane still in the show either. At least at the moment, as I don't know how Javicia will be as Ryan Wilder. But I am open to the change and will watch the show no matter what happens as I'm a huge fan of the show itself.
And regarding bringing back Kate.... Well, Kate and Ryan could then work together as a team. That would be my favorite option to unite the new fans with these old fans who are the hardcore Kate Kane fans. That would also be a nice signal.....
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I (still) don't understand that kind of stubbornness/fanatism(?)/inflexibility.
That's like saying: "I love the blue ice cream. I don't know the other ones, but I will NEVER try them!"
#be open minded

I guess there are good reasons why Kate have left for NOW.
But well, we discussed that already.
I still think that Kate Kane will return at the end of season 2 (recasted).


There is an easy explanation for an attitude like this. And there is nothing wrong with it.

Many people, including myself, were interested in this series because of our love for Kate Kane as a character, in the comics. Hell, that following is why this show was brought to fruition. And while the Kate Kane on the show went in a different direction, and the show featured a plethora of new characters, or characters she didn't really associate with in the books (Luke and Julia), it was still a form of Kate Kane.

But now, after a less-than-stellar first season, and the loss of Ruby Rose, the showrunners are bailing on that beloved character while her story was still in it's infancy. In it's place, they are using the "Batwoman" brand to create a story that literally has nothing to do with the Kate Kane or Batwoman we know and love from comics. All ties to the Batwoman that fans loved prior to this series are gone.

Essentially, anyone who supported the very creation of this series due to their love for the comic counterpart would be justified in feeling betrayed, and there is nothing wrong with that. Adapting the character for the screen is one thing. Kate, Ollie, Barry, and Kara have all had liberties taken with them in their transition from page-to-screen. But this takes it several steps further, abandoning the character the series was inspired by and built around, altogether.

What infuriates me to no end are the "new fans" that are hopping on the bandwagon just because the new lead is a woman of color, who call anyone who doesn't care for this change "racist". The new casting has given people the excuse to make that automatic assumption. I, and several others, weren't on board for this new direction LONG before Javicia was announced. And furthermore, these new "bandwagon" fans, who didn't care for the show, before, aren't likely to convert into a long-term fan base. Once the hype over the "brand new Batwoman" fades, the fanbase who is still around are gonna be those who care for the characters and the writing, as well as those who cared about season 1. But they shot themselves in the foot by alienating a lot of that core demographic who joined because they supported seeing Kate Kane in live action. So once the new hype fades, they'll even have lost a portion of their original fanbase.

People defend the transition saying "other people have been Batman", "Superman" or other heroes. But lets be very honest here. No matter how many people have temporarily dawned the mantle of a certain character, when we think of that character, there is always ONE person we think of.

I'll put it this way. If a Batman show was ordered to series, unless the word "Beyond" was in the title, you expect the protagonist to be Bruce Wayne. You create a Superman show, you expect the protagonist to be Clark Kent. You create a Wonder Woman movie, you expect the lead to be Diana of Themyscira. Batwoman is in that same boat. Hell, less people have worn the mantle of Batwoman than Batman, Superman, or Wonder Woman.

There is nothing wrong with those who are excited for this new direction, or for those who are remaining open minded about it. I truly hope they enjoy it.

But on the reverse, there is also nothing wrong with people checking out because, when this show was announced, their excitement was centered around a Kate Kane Batwoman show, bringing a character they had already loved to life in live action.

I share that with rogvortex58. I'm going to try and give this new season a few episodes...but I'll be honest, as someone who cared more about Kate, and less about the supporting cast...since we lost Kate, my reason to care about this show is pretty low, at this point.

I'm much more active on the Supegirl site, so I'll put it this way. If they bailed on the character of Kara Zor-El / Kara Danvers after season 1, in favor of a brand new original character...I would have dropped that show faster than I can possibly express.

And, unfortunately, not many people share your confidence that Kate Kane will return at the end of the season. I said this before, but giving the mantle to Ryan Wilder, promoting it as a new black woman-led show, then ripping that away at the end of the season, would be in REALLY poor taste, from a PC standpoint. So no matter what they do, even if they bring Kate back...they've alienated one fan base or another.
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  2. Batwoman.tv General
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Not watching. Simple as that. This is not the show I signed up for.

They could have just recast her and continued with the stories I invested months in. But they had to disgrace Kate Kane’s legacy by replacing her with some random OC.

Nothing against the actress. I’m just not interested.

#KateKaneIsBatwoman


I (still) don't understand that kind of stubbornness/fanatism(?)/inflexibility.
That's like saying: "I love the blue ice cream. I don't know the other ones, but I will NEVER try them!"
#be open minded

I guess there are good reasons why Kate have left for NOW.
But well, we discussed that already.
I still think that Kate Kane will return at the end of season 2 (recasted).
http://www.maskripper.org
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[my Blog about masked women in movies, TV, cosplay and comics]
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Not watching. Simple as that. This is not the show I signed up for.

They could have just recast her and continued with the stories I invested months in. But they had to disgrace Kate Kane’s legacy by replacing her with some random OC.

Nothing against the actress. I’m just not interested.

#KateKaneIsBatwoman
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https://tvline.com/2020/09/10/batwoman-shivaani-ghai-season-2-safiyah/

Batwoman Casts Dominion Alum as Alice's Nemesis, Safiyah

By Michael Ausiello / September 10 2020

https://tvline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Batwoman.jpg

When it comes to the oft-mentioned Safiyah, Batwoman is finally putting a face to the name.

Dominion actress Shivani Ghai has been tapped to join the CW drama’s Season 2 cast in the pivotal recurring role, TVLine has learned. The character — who was referred to on multiple occasions in Season 1 — is the “fiercely protective ruler of a small community on the island of Coryana,” per the official character description. “A woman with as many enemies as aliases, she is compassionate and charismatic with both physical and psychological prowess. She is beloved by her people and will stop at nothing to protect what’s hers. No one goes unnoticed by Safiyah, specifically when it comes to those who have encountered the Desert Rose.”

https://tvline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/BW_Safiyah-1.jpg

In comic book lore, Safiyah had a history with Kate Kane (played by former leading lady Ruby Rose), but the Arrowverse drama flipped the story and tied her to Alice instead.

Regarding the decision to delay the character’s introduction until Season 2, Batwoman showrunner Caroline Dries previously explained to TVLine, “I didn’t want to bring her on in Season 1, because I think she would have gotten lost with Hush and all the cool stuff we were doing with Batwoman coming into her own, and obviously Batwoman and Alice. So we just hinted at her. But now that we’ve established her as a person that Alice is terrified of, I’m excited to bring her in as the Big Bad, at least from Alice’s point of view, because she’s the one person, we’ll find out, knows how Alice’s mind works, and is able to manipulate her.”

Batwoman is slated to kick of Season 2 (with new headliner Javicia Leslie) in early 2021
.
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It is exciting to here production resumed and we will hopefully get more insight of what is to come. I hope small screen Batwoman has better luck than the Big Screen Batman, which shutdown production reportedly due to Robert Pattison testing positive for Covid-19.
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Well, today...the filming for season 2 has officially started! :)
Very thrilled about it as they didn't film anything for nearly 6 months!


Dear Admin: It's time to open a "season 2" category to post in ;)
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[my Blog about masked women in movies, TV, cosplay and comics]
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In my opinion one of many articles that start with a wrong assumption and have little to none imagination how the storyline may advance in a good way.
I've noticed a similar trend in all these "what could happen" type of articles. I have to wonder if any of these authors have actually watched the show, or even paid attention to the details as they did watch, cuz some of them have had flat-out wrong info about events in the show. And all of these articles are starting to have a "let's get more people to read our site with an attention grabbing headline" feel to them - all fluff and no substance.

As I've said before, I trust Caroline Dries and team to give us a great storyline. May not be exactly what we want, but based on what they gave us in season one, it'll be engaging and character-driven.
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Here is another article... nothing new, just a different source essentially saying that there is no Batwoman without Kate.

https://www.hypable.com/no-batwoman-kate-kane

#BatwomanisKateKane



Yeah, some valid points but I don't like the overall tone of the article.
And the article doesn't even consider the possibility that Kate might return to the show.
In my opinion one of many articles that start with a wrong assumption and have little to none imagination how the storyline may advance in a good way.
Well, I'm sure these and us will be surprised in a good way.
I may be repeating myself, but I would bet that Kate will return in the 2nd season!
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[my Blog about masked women in movies, TV, cosplay and comics]
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Here is another article... nothing new, just a different source essentially saying that there is no Batwoman without Kate.

https://www.hypable.com/no-batwoman-kate-kane

#BatwomanisKateKane
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  2. Batwoman.tv General
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@Bratty_Brat

I really don't see why it has to be one or the other.

Recast Kate Kane and add the new character.

Fans hBe said overwhelmingly at various site that they want Kate recast. If producers still feel audiece may not accept the Ruby replacement, then add the backup character. If audiences don't like new Kate, then they can always write new Kate out and promote the new character to Batwoman later. Although, I don't see this as being necessary.

Rebranding the show Batwoman and _____ could give them the reboot they apparently want without alienating Kate Kane fans.

#SaveKateKane
#BatwomanisKateKane
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I just made a new page about season 2 on my Blog:
https://maskripper.org/new-batwoman-page-season-2-preview

On that page I wanna present the known facts, some of the rumors and my expectations towards season 2.
By the way: Just 214 days to go! ;)
http://www.maskripper.org
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[my Blog about masked women in movies, TV, cosplay and comics]
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I have faith that Caroline and team will come up with something that I will enjoy. But I won't know unless I watch.

Maybe, because I've never read the comics, I'm not as rooted in the concept of Kate Kane as Batwoman. Just to play devil's advocate here, this does open up their options because they don't [i]have
to follow the Kate Kane story lines. And frankly, based on what I've read about those stories, it sounded more like a soap opera, like the (male) writers maybe didn't quite know how to write for a lesbian lead.[/i]

They want their own original character, good for them, as long as they go and make their own original mantle and supporting characters for said hero - not steal Kate's for the branding and then take a huge-steamy-dump all over a much loved character in order to do it.
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Sorry to see you go, @Bratty_Bat, but I do understand your reasons.

Like most everyone else, I hate that they are replacing Kate vice recasting. Kate Kane represents Gay Pride in my mind, and it sucks that we're loosing that. We all watch TV for escapism, and for me, altho the plot holes drive me insane, one of the things I really love about the show is that it's character-driven. Granted we're loosing the best character dynamics of the show between Kate and Alice, but I have faith that Caroline and team will come up with something that I will enjoy. But I won't know unless I watch.

Maybe, because I've never read the comics, I'm not as rooted in the concept of Kate Kane as Batwoman. Just to play devil's advocate here, this does open up their options because they don't have to follow the Kate Kane story lines. And frankly, based on what I've read about those stories, it sounded more like a soap opera, like the (male) writers maybe didn't quite know how to write for a lesbian lead.

At any rate, I'm going to think of season 2 as a kind of reboot, and give it a chance.

Perhaps, if we think of Batwoman as the Dread Pirate Roberts? ;)
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